For the geometer moth genus , see Plataea moth . Plataea or Plataeae lang grc wikt or wikt ... Greece Thebes . ref name WebsterNinthNewCollege Mish, Frederick C., Editor in Chief. Plataea. Webster ... 0 87779 510 X deluxe . ref It was the location of the Battle of Plataea in 479 BC , in which an alliance of Greek city state s defeated the Persian Empire Persians . Plataea was destroyed in the Peloponnesian ... Plataea offered to put themselves into Spartan hands . However, the Spartans refused this offer ... sent an army against Plataea, but were met by an Athenian one. Corinth Classical era Corinth ... and Plataea. In addition to this, Thebes made a commitment not to interfere with cities that did not want ... prevailed and set the river Asopus Boeotian Asopus Asopus as the border between Thebes and Plataea ... and maintain their freedom. In honour of this debt, at the Battle of Marathon , Plataea alone would ... games asking for the blessing of Athens s patron gods. Battle of Plataea Main Battle of Plataea In 479 BC Plataea was the site of the final battle that repelled the second Persian invasion of Greece . According ... at Plataea is commemorated by the so called Serpent Column erected at Delphi . Peloponnesian War and Plataea Thucydides tells that in April 431 BC , a an armed force of 300 Thebans commanded by two leading Theban generals politicians were admitted after dark on a stormy moonless night into Plataea ... leaders and bring Plataea into alliance with Thebes. Instead the Theban commanders harmed no one but attempted to persuade the citizens of Plataea to join with Thebes allies. The democratic leadership .... The Athenians sent a messenger back to Plataea instructing them not to kill the prisoners ... a force to relieve Plataea. Women, children, and men too old or otherwise unfit for military service ... army, regards the preemptive strike against Plataea as the beginning of the Peloponnesian War ... act after the affair at Plataea and that Athens and Lacedaemon now resolved to send embassies to the King ... more details
italic title Taxobox name Plataea image image width 300px regnum Animal ia phylum Arthropod a classis Insect a ordo Lepidoptera familia Geometridae subfamilia genus Plataea genus authority subdivision ranks Species subdivision Plataea is a genus of moth in the family Geometridae . References http www.nhm.ac.uk jdsml research curation projects butmoth GenusList3.dsml?searchPageURL index.dsml&SUPERFAMIL &FAMILYqtype starts with&FAMILY geometridae&SUBFAMILYqtype starts with&SUBFAMILY &TRIBEqtype starts with&TRIBE &SUBTRIBEqtype starts with&SUBTRIBE &GENUSqtype starts with&GENUS &AUTHORqtype starts with&AUTHOR &YEARqtype equals&YEAR &sort GENUS Natural History Museum Lepidoptera genus database Category Ourapterygini Ourapterygini stub ... more details
Infobox Military Conflict conflict Battle of Plataea partof the Greco Persian Wars image Image Plain of Plataea, from Mount Cithaeron engraving by William Miller after H W Williams.jpg 300px caption Engraving showing the view of Plataea from Mount Cithaeron date August 479 BC place Plataea , Greece result ... The Battle of Plataea lang el , Mach t n Platai n was the final land battle during the second Persian invasion of Greece . It took place in 479 BC 479   BC near the city of Plataea ... a fortified camp near Plataea. The Greeks, however, refused to be drawn into the prime cavalry terrain ... at the Battle of Mycale , decisively ended the invasion. After Plataea and Mycale, the Greek allies ... Plataea was in every sense a decisive victory, it does not seem to have been attributed the same ..., Plataea and Thespiae before taking possession of the now evacuated city of Athens. The Allied army ... refugees on Salamis. Athens, along with Megara and Plataea, sent emissaries to Sparta demanding ... in Boeotia across the passes of Mount Cithaeron , arriving near Plataea , and above the Persian ... of Plataea part 1.png thumb 300px left The initial movements at the Battle of Plataea. The Greek ... in front of Plataea, from where they could guard the passes and have access to fresh water ... contingents in the centre missed their appointed position, and ended up scattered in front of Plataea ... directly towards Plataea, ref name IX55 and thus the Allied battle line remained fragmented as the Persian ... IX28 600 Plataea ref name IX28 600 Aegina ref name IX28 500 Ambracia ref name IX28 500 Chalcidice ... ref Thus 69,500 light troops could easily have been sent to Plataea. Nevertheless, the number of light ..., 132 ref Since the Battle of Mycale was fought at least near simultaneously with the Battle of Plataea, then this was a pool of manpower which could not have contributed to Plataea, and further reduces the likelihood that 110,000 Greeks assembled before Plataea. ref Holland, p. 357 ref The Greek forces ... more details
For other uses, see Callicrates Callicrates a Spartan, is mentioned by Herodotus as the finest and handsomest man of all the Greeks of his time. He was slain by an arrow just before the armies engaged at Plataea b. c. 479 , and while the Greeks were waiting till the signs from the sacrifices should be favourable. Herod, ix. 72. In Herod, ix. 85, his name occurs among the iranes Spartan youths who were buried separately from the rest of the Spartiate s and from the Helots. References SmithDGRBM Category Battle of Plataea Category Ancient Spartan soldiers Category Ancient Greeks killed in battle ... more details
coord 38.184444 N 23.249167 E display title Cithaeron spider Cithaeron is also a spider genus Cithaeronidae . Kithairon , is a mountain range No corner of Kithairon echoless , Oedipus Rex 440 about 10 mi 16 km long, in central Greece , standing between Boeotia in the north and Attica in the south. It is mainly composed of limestone and rises to 4,623 ft 1,409 m . Its northeast side is formed by the mountain Pastra mountain Pastra . The range was the scene of many events in Greek mythology and was especially sacred to Dionysus Citation needed date February 2011 . Oedipus was exposed on the mountain, while Aktaion and Pentheus were both dismembered on its slopes. It was also the place where Heracles hunted and killed the Nemean lion , in the first of his long series of heroic deeds. In historic times, the mountain acted as a backdrop to the Battle of Plataea of 479 BC and was the scene of much skirmishing before the battle itself. In later times fortifications were built both at Plataea and Erythres Erythrai as the mountain formed the disputed natural border between Athens and Thebes. The people of Plataea also personified the mountain as their primal king The Plataians know of no king except Asopos and Kithairon before him, holding that the latter gave his name to the mountain, the former to the river . Pausanias geographer Pausanias 9.1.1 References http www.theoi.com Georgikos OrosKithairon.html Theoi Project Kithairon Greek myth stub Category Greek mythology Category Mythological kings Category Mountains of Greece Kitheronas Category Battle of Plataea br Kiteron de Kithairon et Kithair nas el es Citer n eu Ziteron fr Mont Cith ron it Monte Citerone lb Kithairon nl Kithairon ja nn Kither nas pt Monte Citer o ... more details
Aeimnestus ancient Greek Gr. polytonic was the Sparta n soldier who killed the Persian general Mardonius by hurling a boulder onto Mardonius head during the Battle of Plataea in 479 BC , as told in book 9 of the Histories Herodotus Histories of Herodotus ref Herodotus , Histories Herodotus Histories , ix. 64 ref . br Plutarch calls the same man A r imnestus polytonic . ref Plutarch , Aristides 19 ref Another Spartan by the same name had led three hundred men against the whole Messenia n army in the Messenian Wars both he and his company were killed to the last man. ref Citation last Smith first William author link William Smith lexicographer contribution Aeimnestus editor last Smith editor first William title Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology volume 1 pages 27 publisher place Boston year 1867 contribution url http www.ancientlibrary.com smith bio 0036.html ref . Arimnestus was also the name of the Plataea n general who led his city s host in the battles of Battle of Marathon Marathon and Battle of Plataea Plataea . In Greek language Greek , the words ae mn stos and ar mn stos both mean unforgettable , literally of everlasting memory . Notes reflist SmithDGRBM DEFAULTSORT Aeimnestus Category Ancient Spartan soldiers Category 5th century BC Greek people Category Ancient Greeks killed in battle Category Characters in Herodotus ... more details
Orphan date December 2010 Attaginus Greek polytonic , son of Phrynon, was one of the leading Ancient Thebes Boeotia Theban oligarchs, who betrayed their city to Xerxes I on the Second Persian invasion of Greece , and took an active part in favour of the Persians. He invited Mardonius and fifty of the noblest Persians in his army to a splendid banquet ref Herodotus, http old.perseus.tufts.edu cgi bin ptext?layout doc Perseus text 1999.01.0126 query chapter 3D 231472 loc 9.15.1 9.15.1 , as Thersander of Orchomenus Boeotia Orchomenus informed him. ref ref Athenaeus . iv. p. 148, e. I believe that they could not have won the battle, and that the Greeks need not have met them in battle array at Plataeae, seeing that they already had been done to death by such food ref at Thebes, shortly before the Battle of Plataea , 479 BC . After the battle, the Greeks marched against Thebes, and required Attaginos and Timegenidas ref Pausanias geographer Pausanias , 7.10.2 . Herodotus mentions Timagenidas . ref , and other members of the Medism Persian party , to be delivered up to them. This was at first refused but, after the city had been besieged for twenty days, his fellow citizens determined to comply with the demands of the Greeks. On these terms they made an agreement, but Attaginus escaped from the town. His sons were seized, but Pausanias general Pausanias of Sparta held them free of guilt, saying that the sons were not accessory to the treason. The rest of traitors were put to death at Corinth ref Histories Herodotus Herodotus , http old.perseus.tufts.edu cgi bin ptext?doc Perseus text 1999.01.0126&layout &loc 9.86 9. 86 88 ref . References reflist SmithDGRBM Category Medism Category Ancient Thebans Category 5th century BC Greek people Category Battle of Plataea Category People of the Greco Persian Wars Category Battle of Plataea ... more details
61 83 of book VII. However by 479BC in the buildup to the Battle of Plataea, Masistius s fortunes seem ... before Plataea. ref Herodotus. The Histories , IX, 20,22. ref As the Greek forces at Plataea under ... , IX, 20 25. ref Death During Masistius s conflict with the Greeks in the buildup to the Battle of Plataea ... Plataea in response to the Greek maneuvers after they had finished mourning Masistius s death. ref ... more details
of the origin myth Zeus was advised by a hero named Alalkomeneus. The cult of Hera in Plataea was one of the major cults of the city. The Daidala at Plataea was celebrated every four years ... more details
the Spartan army into battle at Plataea. Notes reflist 30em References http ebooks.adelaide.edu.au ... Greek people Category Battle of Thermopylae Category Battle of Plataea Category 479 BC deaths Category ... more details
Cleidemus Greek language Greek Kleidemos was a Greeks Greek author, perhaps of the fifth or fourth century BCE but definitely later than the battle of Plataea in 479 BCE, who produced a lost book called Atthis named for the mother of Erichthonius , dealing with the traditional origins of Athens Athenian law and institutions. Johannes Meursius Meursius suggested that Cleidemus is actually identical with the Cleitodemus stated by Pausanius to be the most ancient writer on Athenian history. Athenaeus and Plutarch make references to his works, all of which are lost. ref cite book title Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology author Smith, Sir William ed. year 1849 voime vol. I location Boston publisher Little & Brown page 782 url http books.google.com books?id QakDAAAAYAAJ&pg PA782 ref References reflist Category Ancient Greek writers Category 4th century BC Greek people Category 4th century BC writers es Clidemo ... more details
Myronides was an Athenian general in 458 BC, when he defeated the Ancient Corinth Corinthians at Megara , and again in 457 BC, when he defeated the Boeotians at the Battle of Oenophyta . It has been debated, but it is unlikely he was the same Myronides who was sent to Sparta with Cimon and Xanthippus and who served as general at the Battle of Plataea . References http www.lbdb.com TMDisplayLeader.cfm?PID 5394 Adkins, Lesley, and Roy A. Adkins. Myronides. Handbook to Life in Ancient Greece, Updated Edition. Persondata Metadata see Wikipedia Persondata . NAME ALTERNATIVE NAMES SHORT DESCRIPTION DATE OF BIRTH PLACE OF BIRTH DATE OF DEATH PLACE OF DEATH Category Ancient Athenian generals Category 5th century BC Greek people Category Year of birth unknown Category Year of death unknown Ancient Greece stub ca Mironides el es Mir nides ja sh Mironid sv Myronides ... more details
orphan date March 2010 Amompharetus , son of Poliadas, was a Sparta n company commander at the Battle of Plataea . The name means of irreproachable valor . Before the battle, both the Greece Greek and Achaemenid Empire Persian armies camped in front of each other for 10 days on the plain of Plateaea, with only small raids on each side. However, the Persians diverted the Greek water supply and cut off their supply of food, so the Greeks were forced to find a new camp. The plan was for the main contingent of Greeks to set out first during the night, with the Spartans guarding the rear. After the main contingent of Greeks had left the encampment, and it was time for the Spartans to set off to take up the rear, Amompharetus refused to leave the field without a fight, insisting that the unalterable law of Sparta forbade retreat from the battlefield. It took some convincing and rank pulling on behalf of the Spartan regent, Pausanias general Pausanias , and a not inconsiderable amount of time, to compel Amompharetus and his unit to follow the maneuver ing of the rest of the army. On discovering the Greeks had abandoned their positions and their Spartan allies, the leader of the Persian forces, Mardonius , launched an attack in haste. The Persian offensive was in disarray before battle was joined, and Mardonius soon lay dead and the Persian army crushed. There is another mention of Amompharetus in Plutarch s Solon as one of the five Spartans arbitrating the dispute over the island of Salamis Island Salamis between the citizens of Athens and Megara . The verdict was in favor of Athens. References Histories Herodotus The Histories by Herodotus DEFAULTSORT Amompharetus Category Ancient Spartan soldiers Category 5th century BC Greek people Category Characters in Herodotus Category Battle of Plataea ca Amonfraretos ... more details
of Plataea 479 BC . The serpent heads of the 8 meter high column remained intact until ... of Plataea August, 479 BC by those Greek city states in alliance against the Persian invasion of mainland ... Empire Byzantine historians Zosimus , Eusebius , Socrates, and Sozomenus . Battle of Plataea ... BC. Details of the course of the Battle of Plataea may be read elsewhere, but, in essence, the defeat ... south of the river Asopus and above the plain of Plataea . After days of skirmishing and changes of position ... of Plataea The Greek victories at Plataea and contemporaneous naval battle at Mycale, though they did ... the leadership of Pericles , son of Xanthippus . After the Battle of Plataea , the last battle of the Greco ... . In ancient writers After describing the Greek victory at Plataea, in 479 BC, Herodotus recounts ... Greeks over this monument is given in the following passages. Full of arrogance over his victory at Plataea ... of the Greek forces at Plataea, was on the point of treason and going over to the Persians, citing ... of Pausanias after the defeat of the Persians in the battle of Plataea over the Serpentine column ..., which those Greeks, who had fought as allies in the battle of Plataea and in the naval engagement ... the Theban night attack on Plataea in 431 BC, which was the first action in the Peloponnesian ... taken at the battle of Plataea, dedicated a gold tripod set on a bronze serpent. The bronze part ... present at the battle of Plataea, and excludes Pale, in Cephalonia, whom Herodotus did include ... of Plataea. The lists of states given by the three sources are set out in Appendix B. Coils 12 ... at the Istanbul Archaeology Museum . See also Battle of Plataea Delian League Ionian Revolt Pausanias ... of Plataea coord 41 00 20.33 N 28 58 30.43 E display title region TR type landmark Category Hippodrome of Constantinople Category Battle of Plataea Category Greek inscriptions Category Ancient ... more details
name to the river and that the city of Plataea was named after Plataea daughter of the river Asopus. Pausanias then oddly comments that he thinks that this eponymous Plataea was daughter of King Asopus ... Arne , Aulida, Graea, Plataea , Pleteon, and Anthedon mythology Anthedon . This Hypseus is slain ... Thebe , and Plataea abducted by Zeus Corcyra mythology Corcyra , Salamis mythology Salamis , and Euboea ... Asopus himself is not a god. Asopus takes Acraephen s advice. Of these daughters, Thebe, Plataea, Thespia ... any children arising from a union of gods with Thebe, Plataea, Thespia or Tanagra and only Diodorus ... in Phlius, gives him twelve daughters. Diodorus list omits the Plataea and Boeotia included by Corinna ... more details
About the Athenian polemarch at the Battle of Marathon the poet Callimachus the sculptor Callimachus sculptor the Renaissance scholar Filip Callimachus Callimachus was polemarch in Athens in 490 BC, and was one of the commanders at the Battle of Marathon . As polemarch, Callimachus had a vote in military affairs along with the 10 strategos strategoi , the generals, such as Miltiades . Miltiades convinced Callimachus to vote in favour of a battle when the strategoi were split evenly on the matter. At Marathon, Callimachus commanded the right wing of the Athenian army. The right and left wings the left wing commanded by the Plataea ns surrounded the Persians after a seemingly suicidal charge by the centre line. Although the Greece Greeks were victorious, Callimachus was killed during the fighting. His arm was allegedly hacked off by an axe he presumably died from this injury. References reflist unreferenced date August 2009 Ancient Greece bio stub DEFAULTSORT Callimachus Category 490 BC deaths Category Ancient Athenians Category 5th century BC Greek people Category Ancient Greeks killed in battle Category Battle of Marathon ca Cal l mac general atenenc de Kallimachos Athen el es Cal maco militar fr Callimaque le Pol marque ko it Callimaco di Afidna nl Callimachus generaal no Kallimakhos Athen pl Kallimach polemarch sv Kallimachos polemark uk ... more details
File Antinous Mandragone profil.jpg thumb The Antinous Mondragone , the head from an acrolithic cult image of the deified Antinous . An acrolith was a statue made in Classical antiquity , in which the trunk of the figure was made of wood, and the head, hands, and feet were made of marble. The wood was concealed either by drapery or by gilding only the marble parts were exposed to view. Greek etymology acros and lithos , English language English translation height or extremity and stone . Earlier, Chryselephantine sculpture similar sculptures used ivory instead of marble, and normally gold on the body. Acroliths are frequently mentioned by Pausanias geographer Pausanias 100s CE , the best known example being the Athene Areia of the Plataeans Athene Areia Warlike Athena of the Plataea ns. Examples of acrolithic sculptures Athene Areia of the Plataeans Colossus of Constantine Antinous Mondragone Hera Farnese Augustus , dea Roma , Tiberius , Livia from Leptis Magna in Libya References 1911 Secondary sources Cite book author Barrett, Anthony A title Livia,First Lady of Imperial Rome publisher Yale University Press year 2002 isbn 978 0 300 10298 7 div Category Ancient Roman sculpture Category Ancient Greek sculpture Category Hellenistic sculpture de Akrolith es Acrolito fr Acrolithe it Acrolito hu Akrolith pl Akrolit pt Acr lito ru fi Akroliitti sv Akrolit ... more details
Soldier of the Mist is a 1986 in literature 1986 fantasy novel by Gene Wolfe published by Tor Books it won the 1987 Locus Award for Best Fantasy Novel , and was nominated for the Nebula Award for Best Novel and the World Fantasy Award . The story is presented as the false document recovered diary of Latro , a Roman mercenary who fought for Xerxes I of Persia Xerxes at the Battle of Plataea . As a result of head injuries incurred during the battle, Latro suffers from both retrograde amnesia retrograde and anterograde amnesia due to the former, he does not know his own name, and must accept that others call him Latro meaning soldier due to the latter, he has been given scroll s on which to write down recent events so that he may in principle READ THIS EVERY MORNING . He has also developed the ability to see and interact with god s, ghost s, and mythological creatures due to his amnesia, he does not know that this is unusual. Soldier of the Mist has two sequels, Soldier of Arete 1989 and Soldier of Sidon 2006 Mist and Arete are collected as Latro in the Mist . Locus Award Best Fantasy Novel Category Novels by Gene Wolfe Category Fiction with unreliable narrators Category 1986 novels Category Fantasy novels Category 1980s fantasy novels ... more details
saved book title Greco Persian Wars subtitle cover image Greek Persian duel.jpg cover color Greco Persian Wars Greco Persian Wars Ionian Revolt First Persian invasion of Greece Second Persian invasion of Greece Wars of the Delian League Ionian Revolt Siege of Naxos 499 BC Siege of Naxos Battle of Lade First Persian invasion of Greece Siege of Eretria Battle of Marathon Second Persian invasion of Greece Battle of Thermopylae Battle of Artemisium Battle of Salamis Battle of Plataea Battle of Mycale Wars of the Delian League Battle of the Eurymedon Combatants Classical Athens Sparta Achaemenid Empire Commanders Themistocles Leonidas I Pausanias general Pausanias Cimon Pericles Artaphernes Datis Artaphernes son of Artaphernes Artaphernes, son of Artaphernes disambiguates Artaphernes Xerxes I of Persia Xerxes I Mardonius Hydarnes Artabazus Personalities Miltiades the Younger Macedonia ancient kingdom Macedon Herodotus Darius I of Persia Other Delian League Histories Herodotus Herodotus Histories Category Wikipedia books on history Greco Persian Wars ... more details
Artabazus Persian language Persian , lang grc wikt fl. 480 BC 455 BC was the name of a satrap of Hellespont ine Phrygia now northwest Turkey , under the Achaemenid dynasty of Achaemenid Empire Persia . Artabazus, son of Pharnaces , was one of the generals in Xerxes I Xerxes invasion of Greece , in charge of the reserve forces guarding the route back to Asia, and responsible for suppressing a revolt in Potidaea . ref Herodotus 8,126 129 http www.perseus.tufts.edu cgi bin ptext?lookup Hdt. 8.126.1 ref The invasion ended with Mardonius , ignoring advice from Artabazus and others, meeting the Greeks in pitched battle at Battle of Plataea Plataea and being defeated 479 BC . The Greeks followed up their victory by sailing to Ionia , where they destroyed the garrisoning forces under Tigranes at Battle of Mycale Mycale in the same year. Artabazus, however, managed to lead the remnant portion of a greatly reduced Persian army out of Greece and back to Ionia. ref Herodotus 9,89 http www.perseus.tufts.edu cgi bin ptext?lookup Hdt. 9.89.1 ref As a reward, Artabazus was made satrap of Hellespontine Phrygia. This office was passed down to his descendants. He was succeeded by his son, Pharnabazus floruit fl. 455 BC 430 BC , of whom little is known, and then by his grandson Pharnaces Pharnaces II of Phrygia fl. 430 BC 413 BC , who is known to have been satrap at the outset of the Peloponnesian War . Pharnaces was in turn succeeded by his son, another Pharnabazus 5th century BC Pharnabazus fl. 413 BC 373 BC , who is well known for his rivalry with Tissaphernes and wars against the Sparta ns. Notes references DEFAULTSORT Artabazus Category Achaemenid satraps Category 5th century BC people Category People of the Greco Persian Wars Category Ancient Chalcidice be x old I ca Artabazos I de Artabazos I. el es Artabazo I fa fr Artabaze g n ral de Xerx s Ier ko hr Artabaz I. id Artabazus it Artabazo nl Artabazus no Artabazus p ... more details
Refimprove date January 2009 mage Thracian chersonese.png 200px 200px thumb The Ancient Map of Gallipoli Peninsula mage Etty William Hero and Leander 1828.jpg 200px thumb Hero and Leander Sestos lang el was an ancient Greek town of the Thracian Chersonese , ref http www2.le.ac.uk departments archaeology people shipley pseudo skylax Pseudo Skylax, The Periplous Circumnavigation a provisional translation, paragraphs 66, 67 ref the modern Gallipoli peninsula in European Turkey . Situated on the Hellespont opposite Abydos, Hellespont Abydos , it was the home of Hero in the legend of Hero and Leander . Sestos was an Aeolians Aeolian colony, as it was founded by settlers from Lesbos . The ruins of the town are near to Eceabat . Xerxes I Xerxes army crossed at this point on a bridge in 480 BC, and most of Alexander the Great s forces went the other way here by boat in 334 BC. In 1810 Lord Byron swam from Sestos to Abydos in four hours, recreating Leander s feat. This event is commemorated every year with an annual swim event that recreates the crossing. ref http www.guardian.co.uk travel 2007 sep 30 escape.turkey ref The Siege of Sestos Main Greco Persian Wars In 479BC 478BC, after the Greek victories against Persia at Battle of Plataea Plataea and Battle of Mycale Mycale , Greek forces under the command of Xanthippus besieged and defeated the Persian garrison at Sestos allowing the Greeks to conquer the city. As a result, Persian influence along the Hellespont was significantly reduced. This served the dual goal of denying Persian land forces access to the Greek mainland, while restoring Athenian trade to Black Sea ports such as Byzantium . References Reflist coord 40 13 N 26 23 E type city display title Ancient settlements in Turkey Category Ancient Greek sites in Turkey Category Greek colonies in Thrace Category Aeolian colonies Category Battles of the Greco Persian Wars Category Battles involving the Achaemenid Empire Category 479 BC Category Former populated ... more details